Topic: Switching from a four season SuperC to a Wonder, is this a good move or not? (Read 2544 times) previous topic - next topic

We currently own a Bigfoot 32 foot long SuperC on a GMC C5500 chassis with a duramax diesel that is four season capable to below -20*.  We love our Bigfoot but because of the size we have to tow a Jeep around to explore.  When we are on road trips if we are towing our Jeep we often will not enter interesting side roads unless we know that we can turn around without unhooking.  I wish that BigfootRV made a four season rig similar to the Leisure Vans, but alas they do not.  We really loved our Bigfoot camper for this kind of travelling but as we are now seniors the LeisureVans look very appealing, much more than going back to a truck and camper.
We are contemplating switching to the new Wonder AWD rear twin model but we would have to sacrifice some key aspects.  The areas where we would loose big time are:
1- Not four season, currently we often head out when it is below freezing with no worries at all. How do you manage on these type of outings with an LTV?
2- Small water tank, our current rig carries 70 gallons. How many days do you get with an LTV, a real concern is the macerator toilet does it consume excess water?
3- Small interior, we currently have two slide outs. How does the LTV function if you have people visiting or grandkids along.  What about extended use, do you want to kill your partner?  Currently we can totally separate our bedroom from our living area if required.
4- No propane oven, we use our oven all the time.  How do you function without one? Running a generator to cook seems to be a real and noisy pain if boon docking. Our Bigfoot has a propane generator which can be problematic in places like the Baja where propane is scarce.
5- Boon docking in hot weather, we currently have three fantastic fans and a roof vent plus good widow cross ventilation in the bedroom area. How does the rear twin bed work for ventilation?
6- Boon docking battery life? With the 400 watts of solar power how long does the lithium battery option last.  Currently with 4 golf cart batteries  and over 400 watts of solar power we never have to worry about power.
7- Inflatable bed, does it work for guests or is it problematic?
8- Fuel economy, we currently get 12 mpg or 11 mpg when towing on a Canadian gallon, what does the AWD Wonder LTV get in real life for fuel economy?
9- Suspension upgrades, what is recommended, we upgraded our current C5500 rear springs and added a Davis Tru Trac and a Henderson steering stabilizer which made a huge difference in handling.  Are upgrades similar to that recommended for an LTV?
10-Load capacity, when fully loaded how close is the LTV to maximum carrying capacity? Our current rig has over 4000 pounds of extra capacity that we will never require.
11- Bike storage, how well do bikes fit into the rear twin bed storage compartment, it looks good in the brochure but does it really work?  We have two electric bikes that we don't want to carry on the back because even with a cover on they get very dirty if on dusty roads.
12- Single pane windows, what are these like in the cold and hot conditions, do they sweat in certain conditions?
13- Insulation, not being a four season rig how is the LTV in hot and cold conditions?
14- Mercedes chassis, I have been told to stay away from the Mercedes chassis as it is much harder to find shops that will service it, has anyone found that to be a problematic issue?

With all the features that we would loose with a swap is getting a smaller more maneuverable footprint worth it?  Our dilemma is that if we do get rid of our current Bigfoot we would never be able to replace it as they are so rare and being in Canada we can't import an American one unless we can prove it was originally registered in Canada.  Crazy, as they were made in Canada but if they were deported to the USA they did not have Canadian approval so they can't be imported back.
We would really like a true four season equivalent to what we have but only 25' long, too bad nobody makes one.

If you need to stick to all the stuff you now have an LTV will not work - if you want to downsize and park the rig anywhere including in parallel parking stalls in the cities then it works.  If you want or need an all season rig this is not the one to get.
We have the Unity murphy bed - it makes the space so much bigger especially when you swivel the front seats.  and, you are not staring at a kitchen counter when sitting inside.
Our Sprinter works just fine;  all the talk about staying away is the old never drive a Ford vs a Chev talk.  I got the oil changed at OK Tire out west good for 20,000 Kms.  and there are independent shops that will do service. But the Unity is still not an all season rig.
I got the Sumo Springs installed,  makes a big difference in handling especially in windy conditions; tested in the foothills in Alberta where there are lots of side wind.
I learned to live with what I have. (-:  dry camping works for 2 days with two golf cart batteries and 200W solar but we have an energy saving plan and we are camping not using it the same as when we have 30A shore power. We do not even use the generator when dry camping for 2 nights.
 but boondocking with no services you really need to do the major upgrades beyond the factory options - lots of talk about that one on the Sprinter forum
We use ours mostly for road trips and doing day trips which is why batteries get charged.  If you are looking for a stationary rig without shore power you will struggle with any Class B+

We own a 2021 Wonder RTB AWD and are well into our second season on the unit. I'll try to answer what questions I can in order.

#1. We've camped comfortably with overnight temps down to -10c while fully winterized, with some planning. I'm in the process of adding some mods to the service bay to try and duplicate this with a fully functional water system.

#2 With judicious water management we can get 6 days of camping from our tanks. That includes 2 "navy" showers each. The macerator toilet does have a lower water use setting and we use the old rural septic rules for liquid waste.

#3 Any more than 2 people and you could get "testy" after a few rainy days. The shower door can be used to split the unit in half, creating two spaces. We've used this on occasion and it works well.

#4 When we have power we use the convection microwave, don't miss the lack of oven.

#5 The RTB vents well IMO. Two roof fans seem to move air well.

#6 We've yet to exhaust our 230 AH AGM, 400w solar setup but we cut our teeth on a single 100 AH battery 160w suitcase solar system in our previous TT so our power management is pretty good.

#7 No idea

#8 Fuel economy. For the current 11,000 km I've gotten 17.6 MPG (imperial) or 16 l/100 km. This is about 50% towing one of two trailers in the 1300# range.

#9 No suspension upgrades needed on the Ford chassis. I am contemplating a lift kit but that's due to my usage.

#10 It's quite easy to get the Wonder to the GVWR if you're not careful. We run at about 90% of legal.

#11 There's another thread on this site where I've posted some pictures of our 2 ebikes in the garage.

#12 The windows do sweat in cooler temps. We're experimenting with a small passive de-humidifier. We also have sheets of insulating reflecting material we use to cover the windows and the skylights in extremely hot or cold situations. This makes a huge difference.

#13 The insulation is adequate IMO. There are a few couples who use the WRTB year round in the US ski country but they are much younger than I. 

#14 The Wonder RTB AWD is on the Ford chassis. One of the reasons we bought it. 

I was where you are now in mid 2019.  After lots of research, I was impressed with the LTV twin bed on the Ford AWD chassis.  One thing I heard pertains to the Lithium batteries.  They are temperamental in temperature extremes, especially colder temps.  They may have improved upon this, but if you are in Canada and like winter adventures, you might have to make some modifications.

I too had a Bigfoot (21 RB TT).  I miss it every time I go camping.  Every. Time.
 The insulation provided by the wall construction and the double pane windows was superb, IMHO, sound as a house, cool inside in summer and cozy in winter.  FYI, I lived in WA and began camping year round in my BF... because I could!

Having arthritis in my hands made hitching/unhitching the TT difficult, so it was time for a change.  However, rather than wait 2+ years to get one, I chose to go the used route.  I found a small older Chinook in great shape to “test the waters” in the motor home world (at a far more decent $ range).

 After using a motor home for the last 2.5 years, I appreciate some of the advantages:  easier to maneuver, level and no heavy weight distribution bars to contend with.  My unit has the coach entry door in the rear, so it is easy to roll my electric bike in for transport and storage.  But I also experienced some of the disadvantages: smaller tank capacities, two engines and sets of tires to maintain (my truck & the MH), no tow vehicle available for trips to stores, museums or trail heads and not as well insulated.  Granted, as an older unit it is not as well insulated as the current LTVs are.

With all of this new knowledge under my belt, I have been shopping for a Bigfoot TT again.  Go figure.

We have a 2013 Unity TB and have had it since new.

Your list of needs sounds very much like what the Sprinter chassis MH is not designed for. LTVs are three seasons at best. The twin beds have a cold spot against the wall because of the lower level of insulation. They get hot in hot days and cool down quickly on cold days. My tanks and water control systems are not insulated nor heated. -20C is not an option. Four season RVing is not its strong point.

We lived in it in AZ for two winters, three months each. We now own a fifth wheel we leave permanently in AZ - enough said. Preparing meals is the largest issue if you are long-terming it.

Three people work but for a week or so only. They had better be close relatives.

We don’t have enough solar (110W) so we can just make it about 5 days and if it is cold and the furnace fan is working, shorter. Just need more solar - say 350W and sunshine.

The real limitation is water. In our case Black because we have the vacuum flush system which gives you about 12 flushes per tank. If you have a foot pedal flush you can conserve water. Two military showers and you will nearly be out of grey water space. Boondocking is not an LTV strength nor any other 25’ Sprinter.

After two years of not pulling a tow, we gave up and started pulling a Jeep Cherokee. No matter how small the RV if you are going to use it to explore, you will be doing an awful lot of setup and pack up. For us it just wasn’t worth it and besides the LTV is not an off road explorer.

I would think that given your outdoorsy interests, boondocking, winter RVing and off road exploring, the Bigfoot would be my choice.

Not knocking LTV, but based on your concerns and preferences you should explore AEONRV or Winnebago EKKO if you’ve not already done so. These are both 4season campers.

A cassette toilet is definitely a no go, same goes for a wet shower.  A dry shower lets you hang your wet rain gear without getting your toilet wet. Emptying a cassette toilet is not welcomed at many places.  I have witnessed many people dumping a cassette toilet with disastrous results.  A composting toilet is in the same category, deposits do not compost in a week so you have to deal with raw fecal matter and often flies hatch in the toilet unless it is removed often and disinfected...definitely not for me.
Winnebago originally planned for a 24' Ekko which had a proper toilet and a dry shower but it didn't make it into production.  Rumour had it exceeded the maximum chassis GVW.  The current Ekko is not a true four season rig but it should allow you to dabble below freezing without damaging your plumbing if you want to put up with a cassette toilet and wet bath.

Don't get rid of your Bigfoot - we had one and went bigger but now have downsized. Not good for cold weather. Too small inside. tanks are too small. Stay with your Bigfoot.